Curse

Age · Apr 12, 2006, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArianeB

Problem #1: 55ers make Sup runes for monks cost seven times what they cost for other professions, so if you just want to make a normal monk more effective, it costs too much. This affects an entire class, which affects the whole game.

Problem #2: Economic effects. Extensive farming adds more money to the economy causing inflation, which affects everybody.

Problem #3: Anet has already changed at least one farm spot to dissuade farming, no doubt they are working on changing others, which affects everybody.

My suggested solution:
Protective Spirit - Enchantment Spell
For 15 seconds, target ally cannot lose more than (50..20) health due to damage from a single attack or spell.
Getting rid of the percentage would kill the 55 build, and since most non 55ers have 300-500 health points, Protective Spirit would remain an effective power for normal use.

You couldn't change PS as it would affect normal game play as well as unbalance PvP.I enjoy playing with my 55 but not just to farm but just to play as it is like supercharged Monk.When I go back to my minors it does feel different not so powerfull.I play this with a guildie as he has a 55 Me/Mo as to the low cost of Mes runes.The thing is is those that are simply making a 55 monk just to use it for farming and not normal game play.

That is the real problem and a good proportion of it and there are those who don't use it to play the role of a Monk.I saw lvl 20 with presearing armor on at Granite Citidal for the most part these only have Ascalon,Yaks,Beacons,Ranknor,Droknor's Forge and lastly the WarCamp.I know that there are those who simply make Monk for the sole purpose is to use it for Farming thinking they can get rich but to be honest a Warrior can do it in half the time or less.That is riight if you were to really nerf all 55 not just Monks get ready to see more W/X and when it comes to Factions in Cantha get real the Assassin will kill the 55 easy.I read about more gold sinks well that is one solution and to but more drops in the game for better weapons and upgrades it seems it has been cut back since faction has been introduced to PvP.

The real Monk players like to use thiers just to take a break from the rigors of playing Monk to a bunch of whiny player saying heal me, res me etc etc.There are now the Mesmur and Necro and maybe an Ele.
that is my $0.02 worth.

zamial · Apr 12, 2006, 10:49 PM // 22:49

the 55 monks will ALWAYS be here accept it and move on.go ahead and nerf the rune ill get -15% dp and oh look im close enough to 55 to get it to work.the idea of a soloing monk is a joke as they never are solo, they always have a necro buddy or ele to help deal the damage. how many people look for a smiting monk to party up with????NONE.everyone wants a healer or a bond/prot monk not the smiter.and i like to do other things with my monk than keep retards alive.lets face the facts 55 is gonna be here for a long long time, and if everyone( including anet) would realize that life would be better for all.anet has gone out of its way to make 55 harder the "hate"of 55's has made enchantments almost usless without spellbrealer. and this makes me sad.i cant play a ele/necro with enchantments on me without them getting stripped off before they can be useful and that sux.if anything i want to petition anet to stop the enchant stripping madness,stop the hate.....
well, i think im done now..........

Dougal Kronik · Apr 12, 2006, 11:58 PM // 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by zamial

the idea of a soloing monk is a joke as they never are solo, they always have a necro buddy or ele to help deal the damage

Not true. Most Invinci Monks can deal their own damage (Shield of Judgement, Spiteful Spirit) and actually would rather not have anyone else with them. It's all about energy management.

Mr D J · Apr 12, 2006, 11:59 PM // 23:59

/so NOT signed

.killjoy · Apr 13, 2006, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Lets nerf mending to make it last 1 minute to really level the playing fields well hell lets nerf so you cant go out of town by your self.

drowningfish999 · Apr 13, 2006, 12:41 AM // 00:41

/notsigned

I think your jealous, and I bet if you had the ability to make a 55 monk, you wouldn't think twice.

Evilsod · Apr 13, 2006, 12:48 AM // 00:48

Nerfing the 55 would sort the economy out?

True it would stop the sup monk runes been ridiculously overpriced for people who only want them to play the monk properly. But can you imagine the prices on ectos!?

You've gotta be pretty RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing stupid to think that removing the 55 in any form would sort out the economy. Ectos would quadruple in value as people would still want them for FoW armour and the insane number of useless morons taking the Unwanted Guests quest in UW would just annoy the hell out of everyone.

Its for the best they are here

Hunter Sharparrow · Apr 13, 2006, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Yeah I suppose the dp would make up for not having the -75 for the rune atleast untill you kill a mob of high level enemies removing your dp through xp untill the % damage becomes to high to heal. Which is fine unless your in the UW then you better have an ss that can run and rebirth. I think Anet got it partly right the first time by adding the shadows in UW now they just have to make the shadows stronger like the ones in FoW.

Quote:

I think your jealous, and I bet if you had the ability to make a 55 monk, you wouldn't think twice.

Last I checked, EVERYONE can get a 55hp monk. Make the monk, do the ruines of ascalon quest to get the off hand, get to lion's to buy the tattoo armor, level up to 20 and buy the runes. Wow I wish I could do that

Arkantos · Apr 13, 2006, 01:44 AM // 01:44

wow...all I see on this forum nowadays is flamming wammo's and 55's. Even if 55 monk was nerfed, people could still solo things.

Evilsod · Apr 13, 2006, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter Sharparrow

I think Anet got it partly right the first time by adding the shadows in UW now they just have to make the shadows stronger like the ones in FoW.

Oh come on, if Anet had wanted to nerf the 55monk they'd of done it months ago before it became overly popular/used. Its like the droks run, they didn't make it impossible just harder (they might aswell of done though, who needs skill when the entire frigging run is based on a good spawn?). Those nightmares are weak for a reason, its that simple.

The way i see it Anet designed the start of UW for solo monks, what other use would that cesta have? Then when it got a bit too overused so they made it a bit harder by adding incredibly weak but incredibly 'dangerous' nightmares. Then to combat the speed at which people could do the griffon run/solo UW they added the AoE patch, making people go slowly alone or use SS/SV. They designed these skills, they wouldn't have nerfed the build completely because they know people would've left for it.

But seriously, the monk green to replace the griffon run is the biggest RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing waste of space i have ever seen!

Mr D J · Apr 13, 2006, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by .killjoy

Lets nerf mending to make it last 1 minute to really level the playing fields well hell lets nerf so you cant go out of town by your self.

LOL, Nerf Mending

That cracked me up

Hunter Sharparrow · Apr 13, 2006, 02:47 AM // 02:47

They already nerfed the original 55hp setup by changing protective bond. They have been nerfing the 55hp build and other solo builds slowly as it takes time and money to make a change to the game. I think zamial said it best;

Quote:

anet has gone out of its way to make 55 harder the "hate"of 55's has made enchantments almost usless without spellbrealer

And Evilsod said it good too;

Quote:

But seriously, the monk green to replace the griffon run is the biggest RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing waste of space i have ever seen!

And I've heard that if you farm the same group of enemies over and over the drops become worse. I also heard that if there are other people farming the same spot at the same time as you the drops become worse the more people doing it. I've seen people say that more than once while in the UW and FoW about 20 min after losing the favor good drops increased.

Anet hasn't directly come down on the 55hp currently used because to do so would mean affecting the skills used and this in turn would hinder those who actually use the monk and skills the way anet designed them to. To benefit the party. So they've taken steps already to correct all solo builds. Maybe they SHOULD make it so you can't leave towns and outposts or enter missions unless you have a full party (whether all henchies, all people or any combo in between). This would mean gold dropped will always be divided between the full party and therefore the influx of gold would be reduced dramatically
causing prices to drop for everything. Maybe even cause the price of items to drop so far they all reach their minimum set values..sure ecto and shards may increase in value but getting the FoW armor was there to be a LONG TERM goal when a player has done everything else in the game. It's also why the quests in UW and FoW are repeatable. They were ment to be farming locations but they were ment to be done with full parties. Ever wonder why drocks and 15k are the same when it comes to stats as the FoW armor. They cost 1.5k and 15k a piece making the total price of these armors 20k avg including materials and 75k avg including materials where FoW is about 1.2M avg including materials. That's a big jump from 75,000 gold to 1,200,000 gold for armor that only looks different. It's there for when your done all the quests, missions, bonuses, got all the skills and have 15k with 4 weapon sets with top end weapons. Go to the Tombs, UW and Fissure and play through it with a full party and in time you will aquire the ecto, shards and money you need for the armor. A long time it may be but it is a long term goal because without it once everyone did everything in the game what else is there to do except PvP? Those that don't like PvP will move on to a different game and that is something ANet doesn't want to see anytime soon.

Finding builds to kill large mobs of enemies single handed or with a partner was NOT what ANet intended for how this game was to be played. It's people who get on a new RPG whether MMO or not and look for loop holes and exploits to either get an advantage over other people, become as powerful as one can get as quickly as they can get it (don't understand why, littleman syndrome I guess), or get as rich as possible as quickly as possible even after they can afford all the expensive things 10 times over (again don't understand, must be littleman syndrome again). Solo farm or partner farm builds are exactly this. The use of loop holes and exploits to get as rich as possible as quickly as possible with out using hacks since they can get banned for hacking but not for benefiting from anet's design flaws (using exploit). For me Exploit=Hack, if you use an exploit rather than report it than you should be banned just like if you use a hack you saw someone else you rather than report them then you and the person you saw should be banned permanently.

Mandy Memory · Apr 13, 2006, 03:39 AM // 03:39

Did the op suggest ruining the game to fix something that could alternatively be fixed by adding vamp gaze to more enemies?

Drizix, Mursaat God · Apr 13, 2006, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Here's my viewpoint.

I am offended everytime I hear some poor player whine about the price of things. This game is a game. It is meant to have fun. Quit complaining because of a 55 Monk, or invinciplayers at all. The secret is that 55'n is a GREAT alternative to just playing the games missions and quests. Farming is fun. Having the feeling of being greater then your enemies feels good. Its like when Idiot Savants owns another guild, I'm sure they feel really good about themselves.

I made my 55 monk and got 2 UW solos in right before they nerfed it. I got A glob from it. Then I got the little warning about the new update and bam. I went in for another solo and nightmare popped up and I figured it was over.

Now someone came up with a way to get around that. Drops have been slaughtered, multiple times. Personally I feel that glob drops shouldn't have been reduced. Rare WEAPON/ITEM drops and stuff, sure. But truely, in a game where the real reward (in real life) is based more on PVP then pve, gold //shouldn't// matter. While it always will, I remember when I first started playing Guild Wars, about a year ago, people complained. Now, people still complain and the game is getting more and more dull from more and more complaints about whatever seems to be the current "rage".

All I see most of these complainers as are the people who don't want to take the time to learn how to farm, or they cannot teach themselves how to farm, or maybe they just think that being able to beat artificial intelligence in a VIDEO GAME isn't cool. I really have no idea. And while I haven't really thought about most of what I've typed, I'm typing things that I've seen. Just complaints about how people can get ran to droknar. Complaints about how IWAY can beat all kinds of people. Complaints about how missions can be solo'd...

My final example...

PVP vs PVE

PVP : You kill someone you gain faction. You win in HOH or on the way to HOH you win Fame.
The more fame, the more "skilled" you are. False.

PVE : You kill something, it drops gold. The more gold, the better armor and items you can buy.
The better items you have in pve, the better you are in pvp. False.

Games are based on how well you can control yourself. The ONLY crossroad here is whether or not you want to use GOLD or FACTION to unlock something. Because ultimately all you unlock it for is PVP (OMG!!)

I am a farmer. I prefer PVE because I don't like crap talking rank 6 pvp'rs, just like pvp'rs don't like people with 900K in their storage. People, grow up, 55 Monks and Farming in general is part of this game and its one of the reasons PEOPLE STAY INTERESTED IN THIS GAME!

People, if you surround yourself with complaints and dark clouds all you get is that. Start laughing, start having fun, start realizing that flaming about someone that had the money to build something that you didn't doesn't make them any better or worse then you it just shows that they've got more time and more gold based on that.

Arknow · Apr 13, 2006, 04:28 AM // 04:28

You smash The Dead Horse for 72 damage.
You hit The Dead Horse for 55 non-melee damage.
You have slain The Dead Horse

twicky_kid · Apr 13, 2006, 05:45 AM // 05:45

At this point the econemy is fine and balanced. Anet makes tweaks as they see fit so prices never go too low or too high.

Let the farmers farm. I don't buy their gold on ebay. The people that buy the gold are the ones to blame and no one else. It would not exist if there was no demand for gold without effort. Farmers are simply meeting a demand from a consumer.

The econemy is just fine. Most items either created or salvaged are breaking even. If you calculate the gold for salvage kit and materials harnessed you could have made the same amount from selling directly to merchant.

Twiggy · Apr 13, 2006, 06:24 AM // 06:24

I dont see why we should continue this argument.
The 55 build Will not be nerfed <- This is a FACT.
So seriously I dont see why you're complaining, because you're not going to change anything, even if you whine really really really hard.

Hunter Sharparrow · Apr 13, 2006, 10:17 AM // 10:17

As someone who farmed various places as successfully as the next person, even places solo while most went with 2 or three I can honestly say that taking on large mobs solo or partnered is NOT the way the game was ment to be played.

As someone who has gone through the game more than once, following and enjoying the story line as well as doing every by the time your done and povided you never farmed and you upgraded your armor as you went along then by the time your done you won't have enough for the superior vigor or superior absorbtion. To me that makes the game unrewarding and there not as fun as it should be. These should be items you can afford before even getting to the last mission.

Quote:

Will not be nerfed <- This is a FACT.

Just because you say it doesn't make it a fact. Anet has nerfed the original build and has made efforts to make the new build more difficult to use along with other solo builds. The griffens outside augery rock(gone), the UW (added the shadows), the avacar at twin serpent lakes not have mesmers that shatter and degen hp. Those are just some of the places ANet had changed to stop people from farming all day. Don't tell me it was for stopping bots because for the avacar required zoning twice and running by drakes, skale, mergoyals and an Oak which would make for one hell of a farm bot.

Do some searching, on these forms someone quoted a section of an interview anet has had some time ago. They are fine with someone doing a small amount of farming (the kind you do to be able to buy the next set of armor or a new rune when your a grand or two short) but IS AGAINST EXCESSIVE FARMING. The purpose of the 55hp and other solo farm builds was to do exactly that, excessively farm. The very thing anet said they were against. Therefore it is NOT part of the game no matter how much you THINK it is because I have proof that says otherwise. They won't nerf the 55hp build again because, as I said before, it will hinder those who actually play the game the way anet intended. Instead they will nerf the farming areas making it impossible to solo those areas or even partner it. Just because you can do something in the game doesn't mean it was ment to be that way, that's what exploits are.

Lord Oranos · Apr 13, 2006, 10:49 AM // 10:49

To the OP, the 55 was already skill nerfed.It was also nerfed as a side effect of the aoe patch.It is a pathetic, useless build to run anymore, it does not make as much money as you think it does.Besided if you remove the 55 build botters will just use the other ones.

One more thing, the 5 sup run is not a glitch, that is what they intended to have.

And really if this is in the game, and they know about it, it is what they intended and it was meant to be played as such, stop bitching.Really, this build is well known by the devs, has been nerfed before, and they now make new areas hard or impossible to farm with a 55.

Arknow · Apr 13, 2006, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Quote:

then by the time your done you won't have enough for the superior vigor or superior absorbtion.

i've played GW for 3 months, i got 3 lvl 20's, all ascended, necro has 15k scars, wammo has 15k glads(sup vigor and absorb), all in RoF already.

all without buying money from ebay.

i got lucky on a couple drops, thats all, dont say you cant make money by playing the game the "right way".(which i believe there is no right way to play games like this, whatever floats your boat)

All it takes is knowing game mechanics, and gold is-always- the easiest thing to accumulate in ANY game, if you have a hard time saveing it, maybe think about how you get/spend it instead of bitching about how well others hoard it